-Self-Knowledge 

Understanding what one thinks and feels leads to a congruence between these dimensions. This allows for the modulation of behaviors and limiting beliefs (outcome 1). As this practice becomes continuous, the person embarks on an irreversible journey of personal evolution and transformation (outcome 2).

-Vision of Success 

By discovering their strengths through self-knowledge, a person can recreate their vision of success based on these potentials (outcome 1). This allows them to own their place of power (outcome 2) and align personal and professional success with purpose and happiness (outcome 3).

-Overcoming Resistance

 Practices such as meditation, journaling, and greater presence help to identify limiting beliefs behind self-sabotage (outcome 1). By transforming these beliefs, one achieves greater freedom and less suffering (outcome 2), reaching fulfillment aligned with their own essence (outcome 3).

-Leadership and Engagement

 Leaders who foster trust, purpose, and listening create more engaged and productive teams (outcome 1). The SNE method measures engagement considering contribution and not just expectations about the company (outcome 2).

-Happiness

 Having a foundation in relationships, meaning, and learning leads to happiness through the substances dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphin (outcome 1). This creates healthier and more successful individuals and companies (outcome 2).

Dreamers and doers, welcome to Podbrand, a podcast about design, strategy, and innovation.

I'm Maurício Medeiros, a mentor, creative consultant in strategic design, and author of the book "Árvore da Marca, Simplificando o Branding."

Today, we are pleased to converse with Caroline Garrafa, an innovator in the field of human and business development, who has created a proprietary method in the approach to people skills.

Caroline unites neuroscience and leadership, propelling individuals and businesses to achieve excellence and realization through Santé, her consulting firm.

Etymologically, Santé comes from the Latin sanitas, meaning health, sanity, relating to the word sano, which means healthy, just as a curiosity about branding.

The brand ASICS, of sneakers and sports articles, means anima sana in corpore sano, which means a healthy mind in a healthy body.

Both have Latin origins.

Let's explore how self-awareness is essential for effective leadership and the process of creating a vision of success, aligned with individual strengths and daily practices that keep people focused and balanced in pursuit of their goals.

Caroline, you are very welcome.

Hi Maurício, good morning, good evening, it was a pleasure to be here.

Caroline, I am the one to thank for accepting the invitation, it's an honor to have you today on Podbrand.

The Santé method, which is structured in four dimensions – discover, recreate, build and maintain – is a proprietary approach that transforms the work dynamics in companies, by emphasizing self-awareness as the basis for leadership to reconstruct visions of success based on strengths, overcome internal and external resistances, set goals, and maintain focus and balance in the pursuit of goals, the method redefines a new path to organizational and personal success.

So, I ask you, how do you define self-awareness and how can it be a catalyst for an individual's own leadership?

Very good question and let's start from the beginning.

Simon Sinek always says a lot about starting with why, start with why.

But when we talk about people and when we talk about people skills, we have to start with who, which is who are you?

So before even understanding the why, which is your purpose, we need to understand who you are.

But this question was also very distorted with the word self-awareness and self-awareness was very trivialized.

Self-awareness is related to what you think and what you feel and the congruence of these two factors between you thinking positively and feeling negatively, in mathematics more with less gives less.

If you think negatively, but you have a foundation based on the positive, the less with more also gives less and people ask me, Carol, but what if I think negatively and feel negatively, less with less in mathematics gives more and then I would tell you more negative.

So self-awareness is related to me understanding what I think, what I feel and then the result of that is how I behave and each time I come into contact with these three dimensions, I bring to myself, I bring internally conditions to change my behavior, to modulate, because then we enter all as a part of there is nothing deterministic in genetics, there is nothing that we can say that you cannot change, except physically something, when we talk about self-awareness and we talk about the brain, we have neuroplasticity and I think that is the beauty, Maurício, every time we know each other more it is a path of no return, but people confuse a lot of self-analysis which is self-awareness with self-demand, so I say, I know myself, all the time I'm asking and talking.

Self-demand is linked to emotion and I press myself, self-analysis is more in reason and I really analyze to try to change and modulate, recreate new patterns, so I think that's the great line and as it's a path of no return, you won't wake up one day and say, now I know myself and now it's over, you will more and more enter these cycles of analyzing yourself, evolving, changing when you have to change, without fear of making mistakes, I think that's the basis, that's the foundation for the beginning of everything and that we should think both in the individual and in companies.

It is a daily discovery of the professional journey, interesting you mention the concept of the Golden Circle of Simon Sinek, I had a guest, Edson Matsu, who was the creative director of Melissa Grandini, and Edson created a concept from the Golden Circle, which is the Emerald Circle, he added the dimension you mentioned, which is the Who, which is the Who, he added one more which is for the What, so it is an expanded dimension of Simon Sinek's concept and that is an approach that I think makes all the sense.

What is the process to recreate a vision of success aligned with individual strengths?

And for this is it necessary to identify what my strengths are?

This question is very good because the word process is exactly that, again we have a culture of looking very much at the gap, we have a culture and since we were little and a school system that is always thinking about what I am not very good at, what brings me to the average, and I transform individuals, students, when they leave these schools, into mediocre human beings.

When we go to a concept of self-awareness and even neuroscience knowledge we understand that we have a rational maturity, we are with our rational system more formed at 18 years old, I can choose college, I can choose the profession, but my emotional system, which I talked about this interconnection between thinking and feeling, is only around 25, 26 years old where I have consolidation.

So first, I'm already immature to choose any step and second, to discover what my strengths are I need to be stimulated and my stimulus at school, even when we are little, we have a culture of saying, if you're not good at this, study, so you get the average, but if you're already good, you already get the average and talent is something natural, talent is something natural, but for me to potentiate and you guys at Podbrand, you have this mission of your best version, your best version is associated with your place of power, if you don't discover what your place of power is, if you don't have the basis of your strengths and your talents, you will never own it and if you are a person that you don't do well in something and you study and work hard, you will manage to be good, I have no doubt, we've already talked about neuroplasticity, but if you want to become a reference and that little word you used, success, if you want to have success, you will take what you are already good at, first discover and work on top of what you are already good at, potentiate so that you really become extraordinary.

So this change of mindset, this change of concept, of pattern, that we need to understand who we are, but also the strength of our talents, completely changes the dynamics of education and this conformist vision.

And when we talk about self-discovery, self-awareness, we are also talking about discovering what your environment is, because this is deterministic, so if you're in a toxic environment, for you to discover your talents if you're in a toxic environment, the environment is deterministic, it will be much more difficult because you will be influenced by something that is conformism, the brain seeks a lot of explanation.

And there are many people who talk about the comfort zone, I don't like the word getting out of the comfort zone because it causes stress, cortisol, I like the expansion of the comfort zone.

But there is a zone that is conformism, and this one you have to get out of, and this conformism is understanding that our culture is like this, I was born like this, and I am like this and I cannot change.

No, you can, you should, but for that you need to know yourself and recreate this vision of success, recreate these mental patterns that we have so ingrained.

So this is the great discovery, the basis is self-awareness, and then from there recreate this vision of success, owning your place of power.

This has everything to do with the principle of Aristotle, that the great virtue of the human being is precisely to potentiate its virtues, that is, to develop, to practice, to expand the skills, to have focus and be the best at what you are already good at, in those values that are already expressed by your talent.

You mentioned toxic environments, and this is common in professional careers regardless of the company profile, what are the most effective techniques to overcome internal resistance and this toxic environment, or toxic relationships in the workplace towards the defined objectives of our career?

Let's call these internal resistances sabotages?

Let's call them limiting beliefs through this inner voice that often wants to protect us, it doesn't want to destroy us, so I think this is the first concept I wanted to put here, we have a vision of self-destruction, we don't want to self-destruct, we want to protect ourselves, but who protects too much does not grow, this is already proven, and then a covid came, a whole pandemic even to prove this, we needed to protect ourselves, only that we affected an entire economy because of this protection and mainly our brain which is social, it was affected in even greater degrees, because I need this coexistence, I need this exchange, because when we talk about talents and I have my place of power, it is me owning, but when I talk about social brain, I talk about the complement that I need to have with other talents that I don't have, and then my resistances should be supplied, first by my talents, who would, Maurício, go to war naked, who would go without any strategy And without any weapon, we go about our days, unaware of who we are, ignorant of the strength of our talents, and instead of using others as support, we often see them as threats. This leads us to an internal battle of resistance, based on beliefs formed in childhood to protect us but ultimately limit our potential. There's a fallacy that we only use 10% of our brains; in reality, we use our entire brain, we have connections throughout it, but we don't utilize it to its fullest potential. This is our opportunity to learn more about self-sabotage and the old tale of which wolf you are feeding, the evil one or the bad one?

Again, the bad wolf doesn't seek to destroy you, but it does limit you. It's about what you say, whether your words nourish or poison you. Would you die by your own words? It's crucial to understand what's behind this behavior, this speech.

Every belief and behavior is underpinned by an adjacent belief, something you hold true. These resistances stem from such beliefs. By confronting them, we gain the power to change. How do we do this daily?

First, by self-analysis, thinking deeply, employing strategies like meditation to calm the mind. Meditation doesn't have to involve sitting still with closed eyes; it can be about reconnecting with your primary senses, observing and smelling the world more acutely. Life is often on autopilot, causing us to forget and stray from our essence, which is our first filter of the world. This distance prevents us from realizing what we are here to do, what our potential is. The best strategy I can suggest is daily meditation integrated into everything we do, maintaining a fuller mind, focusing on the present task. Keeping a daily log, reflecting on the day's events, difficulties, and what could be done differently helps shift beliefs into consciousness. In consciousness and reason, we have the power to transform and minimize because the brain seeks alternatives and justifications. Without this process of awareness, we fall into the trap of reinforcing beliefs, saying things like, "See, I can't do it," or "This isn't for me." Even the belief that we must work constantly without rest is a form of self-sabotage, leading to burnout. We'll discuss balance more later, but daily strategy is key; neglecting this awareness even for a day traps us in a cycle of reinforcing inefficient processes in our brain. We'll also talk about what we're doing with a new generation that has no limits, is entirely automated, and often lacks understanding of its limits, patience, and the desire to skip steps, all of which severely hinder learning and mental health. So, the main point is to discover oneself, one's environment, and seek an environment conducive to growth, talent development, and changing mental patterns. Discover what you're good at, maximize it, then use these tools of potential to address vulnerabilities. Many people think internal resistance and self-sabotage are the opposite of our strengths and talents, but they're actually closely related, an exaggeration of what we do well. For example, the talent of organization, when exaggerated, can lead to a caricature of a perfectionist, turning into a saboteur. Everything in life is about balance.

The analogy of going to war unprepared, without equipment or psychological readiness, is apt. We can liken war to the daily challenges and unexpected situations that arise. Regarding your mention of daily reflection, perhaps recorded as an exercise, what else would you recommend for people to stay focused on their goals without losing balance?

First, let's start with what you said last: having goals, objectives. Many people are so caught up in the daily grind that they lose sight of their destination. To know where you want to go, you need to know where you are.

Let's play a game, Maurício. If I needed help now, called you in Brazil, and asked how to get to Avenida Paulista, your ability to help would depend on knowing where I am. Similarly, our brain asks for help daily in determining where we want to go, what we want to do. Without a starting point, we're lost.

When we talk about balance, we need to understand our starting point. Balance for the brain isn't a 50-50 scale. If we consider how much time we spend working versus resting, we see this concept is flawed; we'd be chasing something unattainable. Balance for the brain is dynamic, involving setting a goal, planning to achieve it, and making daily checkpoints. This is all connected.

Maintaining balance means not letting your guard down. It's not about constant vigilance but about measuring progress. There's a saying: "If you can't measure it, you can't understand it; if you can't understand it, you can't control it; if you can't control it, you can't improve it." We need a starting point and regular checkpoints against our vision. We need an objective, and it's interesting to note that objectives are the primary inducers of dopamine, associated with pleasure but actually a hormone of intentionality. When we set a clear goal and intend to reach it, we trigger dopamine release. So, it's not enough to know where you are; you need to know where you're going and have a plan of action to execute these checkpoints. That's the main way to maintain daily awareness and pave the way to success.

Perfect, how do you measure and interpret the level of team engagement, and based on this assessment, how do you use the collected data to influence and shape action plans within these companies, especially using the SNE methodology, Santé engagement level, which is a proprietary method you developed to bring to light this dimension?

Where does all this come from, right?

So first to say, I am an engineer by training, not a psychologist, so my background is in numbers, and my career was very much focused on the financial market. So when we talk about the level of engagement and environment, we're saying that the financial market, first for a woman, I don't like to raise the flag of feminism, but yes, a woman, work environment, very masculine, right, still to this day. But when we talk about the level of engagement, and we see research, so as I spent more than 10 years working in a bank, all the research, and when we go to Great Place to Work, or all these surveys that involve understanding the best companies to work for, they have a very strong flaw, and I noticed this over 10 years.

When we are responding, we respond thinking a lot about the company.

So I am placing myself very much as a supporting character, because I am having a view of what I expect from the company, and what the company is giving me.

When you have a view of protagonism, and not of antagonism, you place yourself, what am I doing for this company, what, how am I contributing to this company.

So the SNE that we talk about, which is the Santé engagement level, first it has a very strong conversation about culture, for me to understand what questions I need to ask to understand if this employee is engaged, and if they are engaged, it's not just what they expect from the company, but what they are contributing to this company together, because that is the key to success.

And there's a neuroeconomist, an American, named Paul Zak, and he did a very interesting study relating trust with joy, and trust with joy has a lot to do with a study from where I based my jump from engineer to neuroscience specialist, because when you realize that people don't have trust in that workplace, again we go back to environment, when we realize that people don't see purpose in what they are doing, it's not in what the company is just asking, it's in how they are contributing, there isn't an exact correlation with joy and satisfaction at work.

The R that we call correlation in this case, when it exists, is 0.77.

That means, on 1, an absolute correlation, 0.77 is very big, so we should measure the induction, I talked about dopamine, right, now I'm going to talk about oxytocin, which is the induction of this neurotransmitter, this hormone, which measures the relationships, the relationships I have with individuals, the relationships I have with the company, and I can induce oxytocin if I give better direction, if I give a better purpose, if I have active listening with my employee, so imagine me as a leader, trying to make this engagement, and I can measure it, to the point where I give autonomy, and I return and the person has direction, but they can do their work.

With this correlation, the SNE, it measures a bit of protagonism, based on, of course, the characteristics of each culture, to talk exactly about the difference between what the company expects, how the company is, but mainly, how the employees, they are the great propellers, they are the great, if your employee is sad, how are you going to sell a product?

If your employee is disengaged, what is the productivity on your service?

And there's a Google study, which measured for two years, what were the factors of highest performance teams, and there is an exact correlation with engagement, of course, but factor number one, was not picking the best tech guy, the best commercial person, the best person from, it wasn't about picking the great minds of each of the areas, as we think a lot in Scrum, when we think a lot in Agile methods, it wasn't about that, it was factor number one, was having psychological safety, so when we talk about the level of engagement, we also try to see if this company has an environment with psychological safety conducive for individuals to evolve, and for them to feel part of it, so that is the great change of the SNE to any research, and then on top of the methodology of discovering your environment, understanding what talents are involved, what are the saboteurs and crisis management to maintain this work environment, we do this complete and very assertive diagnosis thinking about these statistics and these correlations.

Paul Zak is sensational, his study on the trust hormone, which is oxytocin, which resulted in a wonderful book, is very true, and I would even say it is very neglected within companies, including for human resources areas, which should create more effort in training leaders, managers, directors, taken in large corporations and make these leaders stimulate this oxytocin in teams, which results in a cohesive company, with results through harmony.

Entering the question of organizational culture, the eight styles of organizational culture from Harvard Business Review, which include results, authority, safety, order, care, purpose, learning, and enjoyment, they describe well the ways in which companies operate and behave internally.

The SOC, which means One Culture, is a diagnostic that uses these styles to assess and develop the culture of an organization aligned with its strategy.

With this in mind, how do you apply the eight styles of culture from Harvard Business Review, a SOC diagnosis, to develop more effective leadership strategies?

This question is very interesting, because I think our next big step is really to have the insights, that the company is a reflection of the people who are in that company.

This is obvious, but we have not yet realized it.

Every time I give a lecture, it happened last weekend, when I spoke about self-knowledge, but more than talking, 70% needs to be practical, so I ask for permission to enter the minds of the people there, from the audience, for us to do self-knowledge there in practice.

And when people, they unlock, they really open their minds, and everything that comes from them, the question was, Carol, how do I take this to the company?

Because if people realized this, we would be one step ahead, and when we talk about company culture, we are also talking about diagnosis, we are talking about the culture of the country, we are talking about the culture of how we were born in our homes, so, I am in Brazil, I am in São Paulo, you are in Bangkok, you are in Thailand.

Cultures are different, and this influences 100% in the work we do, in the way we behave, in my freedom or lack thereof, so when I talk about the Harvard models, and I think we always have to take institutions that have already studied the subject a lot for us to use as a basis, so I don't want to reinvent the wheel, but I want, through the styles, I have a precise diagnosis, so what did Santé do?

We created a diagnosis to assess the culture, but to assess the culture and understand how far it is from what I believe it should be, because we often say, our culture is this, but this is the culture we would like to have, and I really like the phrase of Peter Drucker, who says, culture eats strategy for breakfast, because I can have any strategy, I can have the culture hung on my wall, but if it is not the day-to-day behavior, I am swallowed up, and this influences, again, engagement, which influences the result, and then people say, ah Carol, but you can't romanticize happiness within work, well, we just talked about Paul Zak, we just talked about Paul Zak, about trust, the basis of oxytocin there, which generates joy, happiness, and the more happiness, the greater engagement, so how are we not going to correlate all these things?

And then, thinking about the research that I had the opportunity to do, which was exactly in the transition from engineering to neuroscience specialization, is, when I started to know myself, Maurício, and to really know myself, it was after taking a single lever.

What is a "single lever"?

Sometimes in life, you're on autopilot, and you get a jolt that stops you in your tracks. I lost my father but was on a career path of great ascent and success, in full flight within the bank, already in a leadership position, earning high bonuses. I thought, what is work, what is purpose, does this align with my values?

After losing my father, I needed that jolt to stop and think about what life is and what happiness is.

Looking around, I asked myself, is this the culture and environment where I want to be? Culture, environment, self-awareness, all coming together, and I strongly believe in this: what you haven't felt, lived, or experienced, you can't teach or talk about.

Many people confuse information, which is readily available and shallow, with knowledge, which is much deeper and requires experience. When I went through this, it gave me a sense of something missing. I started to question that people around me were on autopilot, and so was I, without realizing it.

So, when I went to France, and this is where the company's name, Santé, comes from, I went to study and took this break, not a sabbatical to think about what I wanted, because I already knew. I wanted to discover what happiness, success, and my purpose were. Many people distort the word 'purpose,' so I went on this break but for study. I went to study human behavior in Lyon, along with leadership subjects.

During this break, and this is why I talk about the importance of self-analysis, walking to university, thinking, reflecting, analyzing, I had the greatest insight of my life: my life wasn't about numbers, as engineering had taught me, but about people with results, completely changing my equation. It was about people first, which is why I had been so successful in the bank. It wasn't that I had a talent for finance; I had a talent for developing people. I thought, how interesting. I read a lot of books about happiness, which we could recommend later, but mainly, I realized I wouldn't find the answers in the theory of books. I needed to take the book into practice. So I took a leave from the bank, did my MBA abroad in Lyon, France. Arriving there, I realized theory alone wouldn't suffice. I bought a ticket and traveled around the world, went to Thailand, to Bangkok, asking, what is happiness to you?

Through this worldwide research came the inspiration for the Santé method. Despite the question being very broad and everyone initially thinking happiness is very individual, I discovered a pattern. I wanted to do it live here, if you allow me, and ask you, what is happiness to you, Maurício?

It's a constant challenge. I had an episode with Sandra Teschner, a dear friend specialized in happiness, titled 'the design of happiness,' and we discussed this theme throughout the episode. The way I interpret happiness is when my day lights up as I expected, from a more introspective viewpoint, when the soul touches the being, the rational, the matter. It's the combination of essence and form. Happiness for me is not an isolated moment, an occurrence; it's a state of mind that doesn't always happen but is when we feel at full potential, using a term you used. Professor Clóvis de Barros Filho theorizes that happiness is when we exercise maximum potency at a given moment, and still, we wish that moment would never end. Summarizing, including some philosophical aspects, this is how I see it.

Perfect, perfect, and I think you captured the essence. What people answered me along this journey has a lot to do with some points addressed, because everyone had a definition, but when I asked, tell me a moment when you were happy, since it's not just moments, but when you bring it to your memory, what can you call this state of mind of happiness, and no one brought moments alone, even moments like, let me remember the last ones, there was always loved ones and loving, so happiness is correlated with liking who I am and touching my essence, but also loving others, giving back to others. It has to do with being heard, because it's not enough to be part of a company, to be liked in that company, but not feel heard, and at home too. Many people have a good family but don't feel part of it, feel very detached, so the sense of belonging is also a second criterion of happiness, which I translated into being heard. When we go into a company, and we talked about this, the part of how I contribute, it's if I'm listened to, if someone really gave relevance to what I said and put it into practice, so being loved, being heard, and being able to err. We're in a culture, unfortunately, that doesn't admit error, and we want to skip steps, and we take vulnerability out of the game, because I need to be good, I need to be perfect, I need to get it right quickly, and if I don't give myself the power to err, I'm not improving anything, in fact, I'm not even learning, because there's a part of our brain called the cerebellum, which is not only associated with balance but also with automating my behavior. If I don't err, I don't give the right feedback for it to improve. Look at the importance of feedback, of feedforward for companies. That's how the brain learns. Remember I talked about the analogy between human beings, culture, company, environment, brain? Our brain is a company, where my rational system is my CEO, who makes decisions, does planning, where my limbic system, my emotional system, are my employees. If my employees stop, if they paralyze, the company doesn't move, and then the CEO can order what he wants, but the company stopped, because my emotional system is lagging, and there's my CTO, my DEV, which is my cerebellum, the IT guy, the IT person, who will automate processes. If I don't tell them what process is wrong, if I don't allow the error, I'm not automating correctly. So our learning process is by trial and error, but by not allowing ourselves to err, we learn less, we relate less. So when we're talking about this whole process of happiness, I'm saying that these three bases of being loved, being heard, and being able to err, constitute three characteristics that are independent of culture. We just talked about how our cultures, because we're one in Brazil, another in Thailand, are very different, but happiness, despite the moments being different, the base is universal. When I returned, I said, I need to find if there's science in what I discovered, and that's where I went into neuroscience, understanding the brain. I understood that self-knowledge is understanding what we think and what we feel, and here comes the term people skills, which is the congruence between what I think and what I feel, the congruence to see life with more opportunities, so how I relate to myself, how I relate to others. And the most beautiful thing, Maurício, was to realize that in neuroscience there was indeed a scientific basis for this, and there was this quartet of happiness, which is dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphin, which we affectionately call DOSE at Santé, which are the four, and the phrase is, between medicine and poison, the difference is the dose, because you can want extreme happiness and snort cocaine, because you'll have dopamine, it'll go up, but you're undermining your ordinary circuits that bring you a more sustainable happiness, which is the everyday, which is everything we talked about now, the daily practices, self-knowledge. I go the short way, and I'm undermining everything else, which we talk a lot about and have discussed a bit about, which is the process, happiness, purpose, success, it's about process, it's how I, I often say that happiness is like a butterfly, if you try to capture it, it escapes, if you try to chase your happiness or your purpose, it doesn't come, but if you sow your garden, if you take care of what's yours, your body, your nutrition, your mental health, your spiritual health, your physical health, that butterfly returns. So we're talking about it's the process between sowing this garden where you'll discover, that's why it's not a moment, and we agree a lot.

So all this to tell you, which was the question where you were getting at, we need to correlate within companies, happiness, yes, with culture and purpose, only then will we understand the maximum of our potentiality and reach our best version, and that's the process, it's discovering, recreating, deconstructing saboteurs to build, to maintain this balance, all focusing on people skills, where there are already studies showing, mainly studies from Harvard, but there are already several others, from Gallup, many other universities talking about this, that 85% of a person's success is more correlated with their people skills than their hard skills, because it's the form, and then they ask me a lot why people and not soft, I've heard of soft, never heard of people, because people skills are not soft, not soft, not light, and when the brain hears soft, it already creates that it's less important than hard skills, and that's falling, so we're appropriating people skills.

Simon Sinek calls them human skills, which is very similar, because it's about being human. Others call them power skills or essential skills. I think it still leaves something to be desired when we talk about what the brain interprets. If I say power, it's about empowering, about power, but even then I already say, only those who have power can have it. And people skills, if it's a person, you can have it. So I think human skills, you are a human being, you should have them. That's why we're adopting the term, and that's why we're talking about it. I've told you a lot here, but just to understand the story and the foundation of this unique method, and you talked about santé, about where it comes from, health, that's why. It was born in France for this reason. Everything must have meaning. Give meaning to your things, give meaning to everything you do. And santé, besides being health, and we think of sanity, mental health, physical health, and the whole spiritual part, which is a tripod, health also means, like in Portuguese, toast. And we need to be able to celebrate our victories, we need to have the pause to reflect, but also the pause to celebrate and to say, I achieved this. The brain likes these moments; that's how it evolves. Now I've achieved this, what's next?

This is a wonderful theme, deserves a whole episode, just on the issue of purpose, which is a challenge that everyone should seek the answer to, which I call ontological archaeology, which in deep Portuguese would be a mining within ourselves. When I did a more detailed assessment of my journey up to a certain point in my life, I identified my purpose. Podo Brenda is the result of the mission I established from this purpose, and I wrote a book called "Árvore da Marca" (Tree of the Brand), and there I describe this passage, which was the discovery of my purpose and that resulted in my mission and my vision. My purpose is to have a prosperous and harmonious life in pursuit of knowledge and meaning, exactly what you spoke of, and that resulted in my mission, which is how I deliver this purpose to my own life, which is to help people reach their best version, which became the purpose of Podo Brenda. It was exactly doing this exercise that I identified why this purpose is what makes me fulfilled in life because all the moments I felt this potency I mentioned, making the connection with happiness, was exactly when I was learning, acquiring knowledge, and understanding the meaning of all things.

Wonderful, maybe we'll do an episode specifically on this theme in the future, it will be a joy.

Carolina, we now enter the rapid-fire questions, three questions I ask all guests. What are the virtues of a successful entrepreneur?

I like that they are virtues. I think there are several, and when we talk about virtues, we have to say that the person has their own, but I would say that as number one, if they are already successful, a successful entrepreneur, they already have a certain freedom.

Freedom, we know that the entrepreneur works even more, but it's a freedom of expression, a freedom of culture because they managed to create something that has to do with their purpose and mission because success for me is correlated, many people ask me, Carol, can you be successful and be happy?

I hear that a lot, and my answer always is, invert that, can you be happy and be successful?

So, when we talk about an entrepreneur, a virtue of a successful entrepreneur, I think they discovered this path and they have cognitive empathy, there are different types, we'll talk more about that in the next episode, but it's an empathy of understanding a bit of society's needs, because if they are an entrepreneur, they are solving that, but with a tripod that is success itself, it's what they like, what they do well, and what they give back to the world a bit of what they have.

So, I would say that this tripod, the big tripod of success, and if they like it and do it well it's because they have known themselves and appropriated that talent of theirs, and I would add a pinch of humility, I think successful entrepreneurs need to have that humility even to discover their true happiness, and then I'm talking about what success is for Carol, which is not necessarily just having money, it's being happy and successful, so it involves that pinch of humility too.

What differentiates dreamers from doers?

Failure is a state of mind, success is a state of action, action is very good to dream, you have to dream, I think everything starts with a dream, but it doesn't end with action, action is the means for you to achieve the success we were talking about there, so I think it's not even a differentiation, it's the order of things, I dream, then I make it happen, if I don't have the action, I don't have success, so it's almost a priority to put in that equation dreaming, I don't think it's bad to dream, but I need to transform the dream into a goal, dream without being a goal is just a dream, it stays, remember I talked about metrics of knowledge and such, who dreams, and I'm going to say one more phrase that impacts me a lot, that we rely a lot on discovery, whoever looks outside dreams, whoever looks inside awakens, again we're going back to self-knowledge, so that's the difference between the two, which is not even a difference, it's just a continuity.

And the last, what is design?

Design, I think this word is very good, because design, many people say, what is the design of this?

I would associate creativity with usefulness and usability, if I take these three little words together, regardless if it's a drawing, if it's art, if it's an idea, if it's a restructuring of my brain, I can expand, so design for me is an expansion linked to creativity, usability, and usefulness.

We now enter one of our most appreciated sections, which is the reading recommendations.

What books have impacted your journey?

Talking about impacting the journey, I will always start with my base book, which is the Bible, I can't not talk about the Bible, being that it is very current, despite, but I'm not going to recommend reading it, because who never reads, I say, read the Bible, I even find it strange, right?

So I'm going to start by recommending "One Month to Live," and why I'm going to recommend "One Month to Live" thinking a little bit in that more spiritual vein, because if we understand that we are finite, we start to value and the degree of priority changes, and many people say, oh no, I don't even want to think about that, because if I think about that, it already causes me dread, and I would like to tell you that it's a good thing that we are finite, because if we were infinite, we would be in an even worse situation, us being finite, the world is not so good, imagine us being infinite here, so it's interesting to gain that consciousness, so that's the first one, "One Month to Live."

The second, "Biology of Belief," which explains a lot about the environment, I talked a lot here about how the environment is deterministic, and it explains a lot where this comes from, the study there of the genome, which was studied a lot, billions of dollars spent, and it was concluded that it is not deterministic, that it is not genetics, it is the environment.

So "Biology of Belief" is a book for those who like to talk about limiting beliefs and such, a technical book, but very good, very good.

And I couldn't fail to mention "Trust Factor," which is by Bruce Lipton, "Biology of Belief," Bruce Lipton, and "Trust Factor," which is by Paul Zak, whom I mentioned a few times here, so nothing fairer than telling people to delve deeper, because bringing this into companies, obviously with help, obviously with precise diagnostics, but to understand how much trust linked to purpose brings the happiness that generates engagement and, consequently, brings results.

And the book, I'm going to say four, can I say one more?

Of course, feel free.

The more, the better.

"Place of Potency" by, let's talk about a Brazilian, Ricardo Basaglia, president of Michael Page, and I'm in his QR code inside the book, right, my book is in the process of creation, we're doing the last revision, but there I can give a hint, but why "Place of Potency"?

Because we also talked quite a bit here, what is your place of potency, what is your best version, and when we discover that, we have a much broader path to happiness and the achievements we want to have, and Basaglia, as president of Michael Page, interviewed more than 10,000 people and brings there the place of potency of these people, a more hard skills vision than people skills, it's hard skills of people skills, but that brings a lot of knowledge and empowerment, so it's already a best-seller here and I recommend it to all of you.

Excellent list of recommendations.

And I'll read yours, because I want to recommend it in the next one.

Very well.

What theme will your book be about?

About what topic will your book be?

My book will discuss the journey of "De Volta ao Mundo" and the research involved in mastering the method. We often talk about purpose and happiness, but it's important to clarify that this process isn't the goal, which people often misunderstand. So, the title is still under discussion. Simply asking "what is happiness for you," which is the aim of my study, would be redundant as many have already addressed this. We're trying to bring something very specific in terms of people skills, for us to delve deeper and take ownership of it.

Perfect.

To facilitate access for our viewers, we have provided the links to these books directly in the description.

Moreover, I invite you to explore our book section on podbrand.design.

Here, we have curated a collection of over 220 books recommended by our guests.

Don't miss out, and find the link in the description below.

Moving to the end, I bring a question from Juliana Montagnier.

She is the founder of Monjolie, an innovative tea company in Brazil, and was recently on Podbrand.

She asked this question without knowing that you would be our next guest.

So, what do you recommend to entrepreneurs starting their careers?

Firstly, I have a mantra that resonates with what you just mentioned. There are no coincidences, nothing happens by chance, and everything makes sense.

This is my mantra in all my classes.

I'm also a partner at Link School of Business. We have a four-year People Skills program here in Brazil. In every class I teach or train professors, I emphasize this principle.

So, my advice is to understand this principle: what you sow, you shall reap. We might not understand external factors, but we do understand what we sow internally.

Thus, at the beginning of an entrepreneurial journey, I believe it's about everything we've discussed. I would listen to this episode with all my heart, because the way Mauricio structured it is a process of discovery and self-knowledge. It's about understanding our potential, dismantling our internal resistances, constructing our path, and maintaining balance for a better, healthier life.

My key contribution here is dynamic balance, focusing on who you are, what you do well, and how you can genuinely give back to the world in a way that overflows. Another great title is by Adam Grant, who talks about givers. The lowest success scale involves givers, but so does the highest. The difference is that givers at the base of the pyramid give expecting something in return, out of a need for acceptance or lack. Successful givers, however, give without expecting anything in return; they overflow.

So, my advice is to be a true giver. For that, you need to know yourself, excel at what you do, take ownership, amplify it, and then give back to the world naturally. This would make the world a much better place to live and work in, improving our brief time called life.

Excellent, and if you could ask one question to our next guest, what would it be?

That's easy. What is happiness to them? And then you can send me their answer, as I want to know.

Perfect, this question will be asked next week to our next guest.

Thank you very much, Carol, for sharing your wonderful explanation of the method you created and the work you've been doing to develop individual and collective talents in the companies you consult, and through Link (School of Business).

Thank you sincerely for sharing your knowledge with us.

Surely, people will leave this episode as their better selves.

I'm grateful, and I strongly believe in partnership, Mauricio. Hopefully, together, we can spread these potentials worldwide, helping people reach their best version, the only path to true happiness.

Thank you for making a difference, sincerely, see you soon.

Check out podobrand.design to access all our episodes and the valuable reading recommendations from Caroline and our brilliant guests.

Do us and someone you know a favor, share this episode and subscribe to our channel. The world needs more dreamers and doers in pursuit of their best version.

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