Dreamers and doers, welcome to the Podbrand, a podcast about design, strategy and innovation. 

In 2024 we celebrate a remarkable occasion, the 99 years of the Art Deco movement, an aesthetic force that revolutionized design and architecture The Podbrand, aligned with the principles of innovation and elegance that characterized Art Deco, pays homage to this movement that has transcended time and influencing the way we perceive and create beauty I am Maurício Medeiros, consultant in strategic design, mentor and author of the book Arvore da Marca, simplifying branding.

In this episode, we dive into the universe of the operational strategic connection, exploring how organizations can align their visions of the future with the daily execution to drive sustainable growth and innovation. 

Our guest, Leo Horta, is a visionary in the field of business consulting and founder of Maitreya, a management consultancy that provokes the reflection of how companies can think and act maximizing their potential With a career marked by leadership in large corporations such as the group São Francisco and Vulcabrás, Leo brings us an enriched perspective on the importance of strategic diagnosis, the impact of organizational culture on innovation and the role of systemic thinking in modern business management Leo, welcome!

Hello Mauricio, hello everyone, thanks for the conversation Excellent Leo, I thank you very much for your presence today at the Podbrand, it is a pleasure to have you here Entering the subject, one of the pillars for the success of strategic interventions is a well-founded business diagnosis Maitreya has a proprietary process for this diagnosis So I ask you, how is the Maitreya diagnosis process conducted in organizations and how to overcome possible blockages that executives who feel threatened with intervention can transmit on these occasions?

I think the fundamental piece in any diagnosis is a broad analysis, I think in our Maitreya reasoning, how do we do this from all perspectives?

If we are going to make a diagnosis from all perspectives, the first thing we have to do is respect what the company has built so far The company is looking for some modification, otherwise it would not be looking at a diagnosis, it is thinking about some change, some improvement, some need that it has or that the market imposed on it And that it wants to be at the forefront of it or reacting to it, regardless of the moment, it needs that broad look So the first thing is to respect the DNA and what the company has built so far In this first moment, it is where we connect with the executives of the company, the board, the shareholder also, in a certain way It is not possible that a consultancy will enter a company to teach that company to do what it does It can do a job together with the company to take this company to the next step through methodologies, experience, integrated visions, a more macro and micro thinking at the same time So I think the first thing, I started at the end of your question, that it should not make sense to have a resistance from the executives of the company But it should not make sense for the consultancy to think that it is going to do as if the company did not know something that it is going to teach alone And then I think this adjustment in expectations and more respectful postures between the parties, make it a joint work So I think I started at the end, going to the diagnosis itself, with this path traced and then we have conversations about it We have a kick-off with people long before we start the technical discussion, the alignment discussion And then the next step is, we need to make a look that it will go through, from a super detailed market look, competitor, aggregate value, strategic planning, strategic guidelines, the company's DNA Let's call it more macro, which at the same time is very relevant, at the same time that it is doing this in parallel, we also look at the operational of this The day-to-day, what is happening, what are the pains, which are sometimes considered small pains, but which are actually the result of the systemic difficulty of the process of making it happen So we put these two perspectives together through people, and then I think it's a conversation with people and process, and we integrate When you talked a little bit about the owner method, we integrate into the company's day-to-day, because usually the consultancy does not go into the company's day-to-day execution, we do If I want to discuss, for example, the TIF, I need to first go through a month's closure in the CD, in the sales administration, in the commercial area, along with the seller Then I start to understand what the end of the month is like, so I can start to understand a little bit how I'm serving this client, because the end of the month is usually the peak of the company's stress in service So we experience this at the same time that we look at the strategy, we discuss the aggregate value, the product, the market, and the day-to-day of this conversation within the company, where it connects And I think this is the process.

And finally, and no less important, we have a methodology called the hour of truth, which is where we decrypt or unfold the aggregate value that the company proposes to have or has Up to the points of delivery and contact of this aggregate value with the stakeholders.

So, obviously, the first stakeholder is the final client, but you don't have just him in this process So, when you look at all these stakeholders and evaluate the real delivery of the aggregate value, and then we don't do this by research, we do it by experience, we go there and live, experience this delivery And when you discuss the strategy, the operation, we connect with the real delivery that we found and create an analysis of this experience and where it is Because sometimes you have a very good aggregate value proposal, but it's not reality in the company, it's not exactly what you deliver at the end, be it for the final client, be it for your sales channel, be it for your own team It doesn't matter.

Any stakeholder has their own view of aggregate value.

If the company cites that as aggregate value, that's important, and that would make a difference So, it's a bit of this process that at first you say, wow, there's a lot to do, but in our perception, if you don't look at it that way, we're going to do a job that will look at the short term and not the long term And at the same time, there's no drive, right?

You end up running out of operational drive in what you're discussing and connect all this at the end with the financier.

If I have aggregate value, I have a margin.

If I have an innovative product, I have sales.

I have a way to get to the sales points with revenue So, you start to connect this, and then you have to give money at some point, because it goes back to feeding the process that never ends, of improving innovation and the company's path In general, aggregate value is the expression of the differential that the company has in relation to its competitors It's unfortunate when a company has a huge potential of available or latent aggregate value, at least, and it's not put into practice, right?

It's not expressed, and the customer often doesn't realize it I think that's where the consultancy comes in, to try to identify what the company has of potential not used, or not used at its maximum potential, and bring it to the market An additional question in this context, are there projects where the CEO or president of the company is not integrated into the consultancy project, and if so, does this affect the result of the consultancy and what the consultancy intends to deliver?

I'll try to answer this in a broad way, and then I'll come back to the minor, ok?

I think there should be projects where it should happen to have presidents not integrated into the project It's not our reality.

Before closing the project, we usually work a lot in alignment with the company's board of directors Because there's a need to look at the long term, and unfortunately, the corporate system of most companies forces us to look at the short term So you need support that helps you say, look, I know I'm going to move next year or this year, but I'm looking ahead beyond the short term So this alignment comes with the board, with the shareholder, but it needs the onboarding of the CEO, because the CEO is the one who makes things happen in the company It's the one who puts into practice the decisions, or makes the decisions and puts them into practice with his team So for us, in our case, the type of project we're talking about, and with this vision we just explained, without the CEO onboarding the project It would inevitably lead to a very relevant loss of value.

You can, obviously, in the beginning, you have to do a job of gaining this relationship, getting stronger We are very transparent in the process, so we need a little of everyone's willingness, but we usually close these agreements before starting the project And from then on, the result in itself, which is not just the money, but the result of the company's improvement or alignment, brings everyone more and more to the same boat One of the themes that is very dear to me in the management process is organizational culture Edgar Shein, who is a renowned emeritus professor at MIT Sloan School of Management and author of the influential book Organizational Culture and Leadership He presents us with a deep understanding of how the basic assumptions shared within an organization shape the perception, the thought and also the feeling of the team Shein explores how these assumptions arise from the collective experiences of the group when facing the challenges of adaptation and even integration Considering this, the essence of the company's culture.

Could you share your view on how culture influences the ability to innovate within companies?

And besides that, how does Maitreya approach the cultural transformation of its consulting project to enhance innovation and growth in these businesses?

This question is very good, Maurício, because it brings what the market today says a lot, but deep down there is a huge confusion in our vision of this process Basically, I think everyone talks about culture, and very few people act on culture, organizational culture Let's try to break it down into pieces, because it is a theme that we really like a lot, because there is perhaps the factor of amplification or reduction of any change, whether in impact or speed, for better or for worse So, the company's culture, if we think about it, and I'll give you a little bit of our vision, no one owns the truth, but our perspective is that culture is a kind of abstract thing You don't get the culture, you don't go there and say, I'm going to change the culture.

What is culture?

Culture is a result of various behaviors So, in fact, what we need to discuss in culture is behavior, and if we discuss behavior, we have to talk through people It's not like I wrote a behavior on the wall, from now on everyone will do it this way, it won't work, human beings are not like that So, the first step that we believe is that work through people has to affect behavior The other part is that we need to understand, we need to make an assessment of what culture would be, or the way we prefer, of the behavior that the company kind of says Look, this is the path I would like people here to have, there is a culture installed in the company, this behavior exists, there is a standard Obviously, there are outliers, but there is a medium standard, what is this standard?

So, we have a process that we do this assessment, which is to try to understand some pillars of culture, of behavior, which are very impactful in any company process that wants to grow So, if they want to grow, I can, and I really like to talk about the polarity of these behaviors I have a behavior about, let's take a small subject, but it's not small in itself, error management, the way I work the error I can work on a positive polarity or a negative polarity, the error will happen, this discussion that I will have an error in the day to day will happen I have to manage this error and have to work on this learning and where I go with it, it makes a difference in the polarity that I decided to do So, taking an example, we have several perspectives that we discuss in this assessment, and we say, based on this, we kind of pragmatize the discussion of behavior Is that really company?

What is the behavior that we would like people to have?

Or is this a result of some trauma, a result of a past that was very important and that went through a moment of change, of heroism, because we at Maitreya talk a lot that the businessman is a hero, right?

He does this company out of nowhere and goes through gigantic difficult situations of all the perspectives that we can imagine, both personal and professional and at some point you come out with a result of some injuries in this process that may not lead the company to the same ease in the future So, with this assessment of culture, behavior, we discuss this pragmatically and bring on board the main leaderships so that we can say where we want to take this behavior, where would be the ideal behavior It's as if we had a layer under a diagnosis or a process of change, which is a layer of facilitator for the process Without this, it's very difficult, for better or worse, you have a lot of experience, you know how many companies have the right strategy and have not been able to make it work How many companies had in their hands a wonderful product and did not take off as they had to take off Because there are other things that need to happen, part of them, the main facilitator is culture, behavior and the way we will manage it So, if the company puts, we try to put these perspectives, saying that the positive polarity in our vision is this path here And then, obviously, there are things that have to be aligned with the company, with the logic of the shareholder itself, the foundation of the company itself All this has a lot of relevance for those who are there and should have it.

So, how do we connect this without disrespecting where it came from?

And I think this makes culture, it's as if everything passed, culture was the bottleneck of the process, but it doesn't have to be the bottleneck, it could be the speaker of the process It could be an amplifier of this process of company improvement, because the company will get better and people will get better I'm in love with this subject, I don't believe in the sale of a culture process, I don't believe in a product just for that I believe in a process of broad change where you affect or impact the culture, the behaviors, so that there is a speed and an improvement Obviously, if you are in a situation of much greater pain, the chance of changing the behavior is easier, but it's not the best time It's when you're not in pain and then you need a lot more effort to change the behavior Because, like it or not, things are not bad, the company is doing well, the business is doing well, but I need to take the next step But my desire to change the behavior is less, so it is inversely proportional to the gravity or speed that I need to change It's the resistance I'm going to have from culture In this context, one of the great risks that companies are subject to is inertia Inertia is a phenomenon that transmits a reflection of the company's culture One of the triggers, and perhaps the most efficient one that I have observed to break the inertia, was from Dr. Eliahu Goldratt in the book The Choice In Brazil, it seems to me that the choice is the book, literal translation, actually And he says that there are three elements that are inherent to effectively break the inertia The first is emotion.

About what we don't care about, we're not going to apply all our energy So, the need for emotion Then, intuition.

Intuition doesn't occur if we don't have the emotion before So, one is a consequence of the other.

Intuition, what is it really?

It's all that awakening, that insight that comes to us through a whole accumulation of experiences and experiences Without us using reason for it Then, intuition comes in And finally, what feeds, or rather, what intuition feeds, is logic So, when emotion, intuition and logic are put into practice, a vertex is created A virtuous process, and according to him, it's a mechanism he built to break the inertia And I see it as decisive, because it's one of the great challenges And, in general, many companies go through this moment in their culture Of stagnation, even knowing that changes need to be made Courage, then again, consulting is always relevant in this context Because it not only identifies how it awakens this process of emotion, of intuition and logic, because entrepreneurs change Peter Seng, who also has a published book, a very important book, which is the Fifth Discipline He presents us with a concept of learning organizations Highlighting the importance of the five essential disciplines, according to him To create an environment where learning and innovation are continuous Among them, systemic thinking, which you mentioned about the systemic process Integrative discipline that allows you to exercise, in addition to isolated events To understand the entire complex process of interrelations and patterns that influence this organizational behavior So, with your vast experience as an executive, CEO and now leading Maitreya How do you see the applicability of systemic thinking in modern business management?

And if you have any practical example or situation in which, in your career, you were able to integrate this discipline And contributed significantly to build solutions and develop a culture of success and company results?

Well, let's go.

First, all the work of Peter Seng and the various concepts he brings He does it in a very clear way, I think he goes on a very clear path The Fifth Discipline, I think we have a point, which is He talks about companies that learn, but in fact, if we look at it, the slogan is this But deep down he says, companies that learn and act Because basically, his search there is, if you learn, it means that you will change That you will adapt and that you will do it at the intensity and speed that is necessary So, for this to happen, it is impossible to do it properly if you do not have systemic vision Or systemic thinking, whatever we want to put it as a term So, basically, what brought the company here are solutions to problems or strategies from the past That worked, but that today generate problems Somehow, they no longer serve the situation we live in today And then, what is the trend that everyone has, or companies have, if they do not stop to make a formal diagnosis process To look deeper, to review their future, they tend to take pieces of the solution they gave in the past and try to adapt So, they look at pieces of what they did and say, look, this solution now, I can put technology So, in the past, my client wanted service in one way And now, putting technology, I can do it faster, I can do it in another way The same thing, I can do cost revision, I can look at globalization, I can do strategic sourcing, I can change the way of production And then, this solves my company's future problem Or I can, in fact, make a new product, deliver a different service, and so on What is the problem of these separate solutions?

They will hardly deliver a real final solution that makes the company stay in the leadership of its market It can even improve a situation, or it can be a more latent pain, I can do it, suddenly my product has a very bad margin because of costs And then, with globalization, with strategic sourcing, I can get a model, but not necessarily solve the future risk of the sourcing company Imagine who was, I think, the war, of all the last ones we've seen, the wars showed how fragile is the global sourcing system If you don't have an adequate risk management, you can be earning at the cost, but you can be without providing Or without receiving to be able to provide your product So, at the end of the story, I think the point of the systemic vision is to be able to connect these analyzes They interact in the analysis of their diagnosis, they don't do a separate diagnosis I don't do only a diagnosis of the sourcing, I don't do only a diagnosis of the factory, I don't do only a diagnosis of the service, I don't do only a diagnosis of the culture It's no use, it's not only about the strategy, punctual solutions that can make a lot of sense They end up not being able to make the real impact that the company needs, and they don't have longevity And that's it, the lack of longevity in the solutions wears down the team Because the team, to make that change that we just did, creates a project, a short project in a company, a one-year project It can take two, three, for you to implement everything you want in that project And effectively, in the end, you're back in a new project to improve, because that doesn't solve it, because it alone wouldn't solve it from the beginning So I think the point of systemic thinking for us is this perception And I think the attempt, let me give you a practical example, I'm going to avoid the company's name, but to give you the context So if you have a problem, for example, a company that we did a job, it had a logic Deliver the product at a very high speed to your client, so basically for a few years The market had a shortage of quality product offers, you have quality products, with certain aspects It was based on always having a stock available, it's always at the time it can do a very strong service to the sales channel And then what happens, this was very good for a long time, but from a certain moment we already know that the offer was not so small in the market And from there, what the company tried to do, it tried to find solutions to support this proposal So she squeezed the product, she tried to reduce waste in other areas, she tried to find ways to earn in legal logistics But that managed to review the way of doing it, and all of them, punctually, with these initiatives, they improved their results But they did not deliver a permanent solution, because the market no longer valued the rapid availability of the product as it was valued before It valued much more the complete management of the solution, the service coupled to the product, the work of merchandising, the work of design There are many things that began to be worth much more in the head of the market, because other things were, in quotes, losing the differential value they had So when the company, for 3, 4 years, was trying to improve in this way, and it was a gigantic project You will have the innovation hub, the guy comes with technology, comes with a lot of things in the same solution And he's trying to win this way.

The work was exactly the opposite, but why are we going down this path here?

Let's try to understand, then you have to look at all the areas, let's look at the level of stress that we put everyone to try to deliver this here But our client, when we go to the moment of truth, and you go to the end, and you start to understand, be it with the channels, be it with the end customer, be it with everyone involved in the process Where is the real added value that the company is delivering in that, you say, man, wait a minute, this doesn't deliver anymore And then it's no use doing it faster, it's no use doing it more efficiently, it's no use doing it with a hologram that won't solve my problem And the client on the other hand says, man, for me it doesn't matter, I already work with stock regulator, I already have a lot of things, I don't need this process anymore But he doesn't officially verbalize it to you, you need to find it, and then you change the solution, you say, no, wait, let's do it differently So let's do a job where we're going to start creating value in the complete solution, let's add service to the product Let's start a process where we value more the speed of innovation in the product, in the quality, above what the market advocates as being the quality Let's deliver something perceived differently, and then you start putting your money, your effort, your project, things that are different from those initiatives This doesn't make what was done now, that when it was done in the past, it wasn't important, and maybe it wasn't a brilliant solution at the time Today it no longer works, looking systemically, you look at the process, and who helps this happen?

The methodology of the consultancy, but the knowledge of the people in the company, the people who are encouraged to look beyond what is being said in the day-to-day And especially, sincerely, not just looking at the KPI, which will deliver at the end of the month, the end of the year, the semester And then no one touches anything, because every time I touch something, I lose something in the short term, in exchange for a much better result in the medium term But then you need the person himself who is in the area, you can have a common project of consultancy, you will have other analyzes, you will have the so-called quick wins You will deliver short-term results to help even the financial one that you are investing But if you look at it punctually, there may be some area that you will not have a gain along with what it will do So that executive may say, I don't have that incentive to look at it the way I should have So the systemic vision helps to take the executive out of that position when he understands or participates prominently in a way of the project, of the analysis, of his vision Because for us, the systemic thinking is this integration, I gave you a small example, otherwise I'll have to go deep into it But in our attempt to see how it impacts, be it in the strategy, be it in the product, in the service, or be it in the execution, and certainly in the economics of the end Because you will get there and you will discover, man, this margin, what I delivered in so-called ready delivery, the margin is half of what I do in a sale Because I deliver a system of results for the customer at the tip And effectively you have coupled services that are not concrete, but are services that add value to him, that do work for him at the tip or intermediary An intelligence, an action, an assertiveness, which for him is worth more than having the product in ready delivery, which in the past was true Which nowadays is no longer, it is not that it has no value, but it is not a value that will make you have the business as a leader because of that The example illustrates the process well It caught my attention that you mentioned a habit, a characteristic of seeking parts of past solutions to apply in new challenges in the present And that comes to mind, an expression that would be a strategic enjambre, because it is not effectively a coordinated action aiming at the look of the current problem, of the challenge that is faced at the moment And yes, catapulting past solutions to try to adapt to the moment, considering the market, for example, where generations have changed a lot of behavior, I would say that this is harmless And another observation, you talked about KPIs, I rarely saw in the KPIs defined in organizations, the degree of satisfaction of customers Usually they are numerical, quantitative, related to the balance, but what perpetuates the balance, the high degree of satisfaction of customers, this has a direct impact on market participation So it's like for a doctor to identify symptoms, not necessarily the disease yet, and the market satisfaction exam of consumers, users, can be a symptom of a positive path forward, or a negative path, of something that may come later, repercuting a very big problem Speaking of executives, sorry, do you want to add something?

I think your point is very good, Maurício, and I think that the story of customer satisfaction is a parallel to the history of culture All companies want to discuss this in some way, everyone puts this expression in the speeches of any executive meeting, but effectively, what is really done, where is the company's performance?

And many really do not look at this for lack of time, they do not have a bad will, it is that the problems of the day to day, the difficulties they already live, lead them to look at the company itself, they look inside the company And with so many difficulties to flow, it starts to have such a great friction in so many things that it starts to complicate.

I had a relevant businessman that I respect a lot, he said to me once, my problem starts when I take the order I think this is the reality of a company suffering from a gigantic level of friction, of a huge friction within the company, and then it loses perspective to the satisfaction of its client, or the experience of its client So this is a case, this may be the easiest to diagnose in the sense of the loss of the client as a focus, but there is a second case that I think is the one that catches companies the most, which is the middle of the road And we at Maitreya are very pragmatic about the story of the middle of the road, there is no middle of the road, or you are very good or you are nothing, there is no middle of the road in the process So what is the middle of the road?

I do research, so I'm going to do research with the client, so I'm going to do it there, and now there is the NPV, which is the Net Promoter Score, which is a little better than a research that the guy did on paper, but at the end of the story you do a research, a work to take care of your biggest asset Your relationship with who is really your support, who buys you, who is your fan, who in a certain way sustains the company as an existence in the medium term, which is what you said, who sustains that balance, regardless of your EBITDA, your CAGR, what you have working today, what you will take to the future, that's it And this look is very simplified, it is given to a research, it is given to some types of parameters that will not be enough for me to have the ability to innovate, to act on what I need to act, which is very impactful It's funny how you get into companies and there's always a discussion about how to improve the margin, the best way to improve the margin is to have your consumer, your client, very satisfied, because he pays more for something that is very satisfied Now I go there and I discuss 400 methods to improve the cost, but I will not discuss how much my client is really happy with the way I deliver Here I think it goes deeper, which is, for us, Maitreya, the world is no longer, I love it when someone asks me, but do you like service or product more?

I say, but the two are not together Is there a product without service today?

Is there a service without product?

If we stop to think, it's very difficult, because the future is not in this separation, the future is in the junction At the end of the story, they end up separating things in this process, because they don't see how they are researching the product, if it's a concrete product, they research the product, they don't see what's around the service that should be part of the solution Because for the client, the client doesn't care if it's a product, if it's a service, he wants what he's looking forward to, or what we took him to aspire to, because we said we had the ability to deliver to him something that would change his life on that subject And then we have to have this look, so I think what you brought from the story of the vision of being worried about it, or being attentive to it, goes through much bigger things I can give a thousand examples, but basically, if you look at the NPVs that most companies today do, when you try to make the consumer experience, I'm obsessed with it So I love any business that I work in, we work in the parallel community, you're going to try to analyze all the services and products and situations that we're looking at here, but you just have to go in In my academy that I do exercise, the academy is good, but its value proposition, its delivery, is not 50% of what it has to deliver, and its NPV is not bad Because when the competitor comes and puts another unit in front of it, which really delivers what the consumer is not even able to evaluate, but when he realizes that he has another solution, he loses a lot Or how much of the price he's charging today, he couldn't charge more if he really delivered what he was proposing And it's not the NPV that's going to solve it, it's another conversation, it's looking, it's living, it's being there and living the product, the service, the solution, as we prefer to look at what the company is delivering But then you need to focus, you need to make an effort, and you have to put your most senior to do this, and not your operational to do this It's a company that can systematically look at what we're really delivering and can evaluate what kind of things make sense or don't make sense And then details make a lot of difference, when you enter the high-level delivery level, if you have an academy shower that when you open the shower, your water cools down for three seconds You will understand that the value proposition of being a high-level academy no longer delivers I took a small subject, an example to give how and the NPV is good, got it?

That's it Yeah, but it's like you said, it's not being threatened Again, the analogy of the science of health helps to understand this well, the change in the environment can manifest that disease that is there, latent, it exists but it is not manifest It is this case, it is this example, it is enough for a competitor to enter that region that this will certainly affect the minimum result If it is not much greater than the market loss, this can affect, it is really a concern and also an opportunity for consultancy Thank God Exactly, exactly, it's like I work with strategic design This is the territory, the area that most acts precisely in the expression of what the brand properly intends and what the consumer perceives Not always the same thing, what we communicate is what is perceived, so it's a challenge, a beautiful challenge to be done in management Going a little deeper into the issue of executives, talents, Brené Brown in her bestseller Courage to be Imperfect Unveils the complexity of the interaction between courage, vulnerability and leadership She proposes that embracing vulnerability is not a sign of weakness, but a demonstration of courage that can lead to more authentic and effective leadership This perspective is particularly relevant in a business environment where innovation and risk are inevitable, it needs to be advancing, but often received with resistance due to fear of failure So all innovation has a risk, so how do you believe that this approach can transform the fear of failure into a catalyst for innovation in companies?

And if you could explain to us how Maitreya operates to strengthen leadership and the very culture of innovation within the companies you advise Let's go, this is another subject that we like a lot because it is connected to everything we have been talking about, your questions are bringing a connection to the factors that make companies evolve or not I think the question here, first of all, if we look at the leadership development workshop, and one of the photos I have is a flood, a house, where everything is flooded, there is a place on fire, and there is a guy on top of the house looking at the horizon without perspective This vision, this figure, is what we understand to be the emotional interpretation that executives have of failure So when he makes a mistake, when he has a failure in something, when something goes wrong, his feeling is that the world is going to end Because we are talking about a situation where there is no remedy in the short term, it is flooded, it will take time to lower the water, the house will get messy, he will lose a lot And eventually, emotionally speaking, he will even lose his job because of the mistake he made And then we start to understand that this is part of a process that, even if there is no change, your day-to-day would already have an error, and the error happens, regardless of whether we are looking for change or not In a process of change, your amount of error increases, because you are doing something that you are not used to doing, or you are moving in a different way from what you used to do, so the errors increase This vulnerability that we are talking about here, and accepting this vulnerability, makes the executive stronger, makes the executive more leader in the process And part of what we do in the process is to develop, we create this program of development of leaderships, which are from workshops to training, in parallel to the process that we are talking about here To help executives understand that this process is the opposite of what it seems There is a phrase that we use a lot, it's from my mistake, who speaks first is me, this is a phrase that we always put If you made a mistake, the first thing you do is say I made a mistake, and say it before others see it, because you can adjust the process soon and already solve it And if this caused any harm, it will not be not saying that will make the harm not happen, the harm happened So it's better to put the problem ahead, and if I'm getting ahead of myself to speak, I'm going to get ahead of myself to act And this will show that the path is the opposite, the trust of the company, the trust of the team, the trust of the CEO, the trust of the shareholder, it increases according to my ability not to defend myself from the mistakes I made Because the mistake is learning, so this process is not easy, it is a process that goes intuitively contrary to what people think The natural path of people is to defend themselves from the mistake and not bring the mistake, being a potential gain, of leadership elevation, adjustment And if this is not done this way, you still go into a process in jail, which is when I try to put the mistake as a responsibility of another area, or somewhere that is not under me So, besides not accepting my mistake, besides not being able to talk about it in a protagonist way, and not acting on it, which would already be very bad There is a derivation of this, which is when I create an entropy within the company, causing other areas to have to move to talk about a subject as if they had caused it And we're going to spend a year arguing that the problem is this, it's that area that didn't do its thing, the other didn't do it, let me tell you a sad story I take the agenda, the time and the focus of the executives to defend myself, and then there is a situation where the mistake becomes, instead of being a growth path, it becomes an obstacle to walk And then it has a lot to do with culture, which is a bit of what you were talking about, if culture is a culture of, let's make mistakes, but let's fix it quickly and let's learn from it, it's a path If culture is practically massacring those who make mistakes, this will create a problem, and then there are other sentences, I really like to give examples outside of the company's day-to-day to try to get the person out of the mindset that is there So, stop to think, if you only make a penalty mistake in football, who will hit?

If you don't get the ball to hit, you won't make a mistake If you have someone in your company who never missed a penalty, he probably never hit the penalty, really I have some friends in football, so the time you go to a penalty shootout, a game, a final, walk from the middle of the field to the ball that you're going to put on the mark to hit, it's an infinite amount of time that goes by and everything goes through your head It's a decision, in theory, if everything goes right, there are 5 that will hit and you have 11 to hit, so there are 6 there who will say, look, later, it may even be that the 11 hit, but there is indeed a path So I think the story of error, the story of failure, it needs to be interpreted in another way, obviously here keeping the right perspectives It's no use having someone who misses all the time, who causes damage every day, we're not going to get there and give a trophy to this situation, which also doesn't make sense But you mitigate things, and then I think the important point, Maurício, connects a lot with the history of the diagnosis Because if I'm making a mistake in a combined process of path, we have to change the way we're going to do production in the factory The model needs to be revised, we're having trouble, the production planning is not adequate, the part of interaction with operations is not working, globalization So I'm going to change all this, if I'm making a mistake in this combined process that we had to change and I make a mistake and fix it quickly, this mistake is super valid No, I decided to change something that doesn't have a diagnosis, it's someone's attempt to make a change that impacted, I'm going to lose a big client Because I decided to try an innovation there without a complete diagnosis, I think that's a mistake that's not worth it, it's a mistake that doesn't have ROI It doesn't have a learning to be used in the path, because I'm not going to continue with that path So it's not a decision, it's an attempt and a mistake, then I turned the company into a laboratory, this laboratory is too expensive, especially for its shareholders Because they built it with sweat, blood and effort, and then you make an attempt to improve, no matter how based it is at that point But it's not looking at everything and it's not connected to everything, this is a problem Now, on the contrary, I'm running a plan that has to be 40 initiatives in the whole company, which would be a gigantic plan And if the 40 had a mistake this month, it can still be worth it, because you're going to overcome this mistake and you're going to make a path in the sequence and you're still improving And the company has matured, so I think there's a way And lastly, we talk a lot about wrap-up processes at the end, that is, if you have an error and this error has some relevance At the end of a week, of a day, of a month, you have to have a way to set up your process and say, wait a minute, guys, let's get up what we missed I worked with an international fund, I was a business executive in some companies, and the president of the board, we entered the meeting And the first thing, before I started the result, he said, Léo, what are our mistakes this month?

What did we miss?

And that was very impactful for me, because I've had this error theory for a long time, but it's very impactful for you in an American fund Wait a minute, let's go here, where's the error?

Regardless of the result, the result was good, it's not a question of the result, it's a question of, like, tell me where there's an error, because I believe more in the management when the management is seeing your mistakes It was, in a way, a wrap-up of relevant errors, right?

Obviously, the board meeting, you're not going to list 45 errors, but if you list two errors that you made relevant in that month And what you've already fixed, and what you've changed, it's very useful for the company, and you reproduce this model down in the other instances So that's what we, today, as a consultancy, we propose in what we call the weekly alignment meetings, in the result forums We say, man, we have to look at the mistakes, let's discuss them, let's discuss what we did with them, without this suffering, right?

We even say, without carrying the piano, you don't need to put the piano on your back, let's just solve the problem and let's go I think the answer is broad, because I think it starts from a system for the error to be used as a lever for growth So it starts from looking at the culture, behavior, looking at what it means to make a mistake in a process derived from a really approved plan And this error is part of it, or if it's a punctual initiative error, if it has this ability to deliver value in the sequence, if it has already been adjusted I made a mistake, but I'm already adjusting the situation, I've already changed, I've already gone there and fixed it All these perspectives in the discussion of this, plus the training of the executives, or the development of the executives To understand that making a mistake, overcoming the mistake and quickly assuming, increases your confidence in his future in the company I think it's a combination of all this, and it's a long term, and it's not a change in companies that is fast In the medium term, it turns the company, it delivers a much greater capacity for action in the company Exponentially greater than it was in the model where failure was much more important than success This is a theme that has a huge relevance in the importance of the CEO, or the president of the company, to stimulate his team To express in a calm way, in an open way, the difficulties he faced, and what in a certain way is not well resolved Exactly what you said, in these examples, we understand that...

Sorry, sorry, sorry, I think it's just that the CEO actually needs to be the biggest example of this I think the point here, more than him taking this logic into the company And I'm telling you, I was the CEO of this company, and the chairman's question was like Tell me where the mistake was, face to face, in front of a lot of people who are there You need to be the example, if you're the CEO, the Chief Executive Officer, who acts is him So who's going to make a mistake is him, there's no way not to be He's the penalty kicker, right?

Exactly, he's the penalty kicker, he's always the one charging, the first penalty is his So it's impossible not to have a list of mistakes there And if he has this ability to get into his forums, be forums above his responsibility or below And he says, I made a mistake here, let's discuss what we're going to do, or let me put what I made a mistake and what we're doing There's no problem, he brings that visibility The boy propaganda, or the girl propaganda of this, is the Chief Executive Officer It's him who needs to bring this behavior in a legitimate way, without having to force the bar And even because at the end of the story, what happens in the company will fall on the lap of the Chief Executive Officer For better or for worse, right?

Any problem at the end, anywhere, is his, at the end of the story No one has risen above him in the execution So I think that's a bit of it, sorry to interrupt you, but I think this point you brought is good It's the catalyst effect that the leader generates within the company Entering the aspect of strategic consulting, it can be a significant investment Especially for a small and medium-sized company Based on your vast experience with Maitreya, what strategies or practices would you recommend for a small and medium-sized company That does not have the resources to hire a consulting firm of this size That wants to start a process of transformation and growth on its own Without the direct support of a consulting firm, if not for the circumstances in which this company is at the moment I'll talk about two paths, I'll talk about a path where basically the company itself tries to solve And another way to do it with a consulting firm The company itself, I think the first thing, right?

Every company that is standing, working, regardless of the level of the result it is delivering today It has a strategy in progress It may not even have the strategic plan described formally, but there is a strategy Otherwise it would not be standing, there is no luck If there is one thing that the market is not even there, it is for luck The market will respect that it delivers a solution in some way, whatever it is, but it delivers It will have its graduation of satisfaction or profitability, if we want to put it that way, efficiency So the company may not be financially prepared for a gigantic project of what we are talking about now But it has a strategy running, if it has a strategy running, and this strategy needs to recognize that it is alive So the strategy changes as the world changes, the market changes, the client changes and you change So it's in the company's hands, it doesn't need someone to do it for it because it does The difference may be the focus, the time, the speed, and especially the methodologies and experiences from another place that a consultancy may bring But it has its executives too, and it can do it little by little The other thing that it can pay a lot of attention to is what we are talking about, the delivery of the final aggregate value So if it is attentive to this, even if it is not able to do all this revision that we talked about here The chance that it can improve over time and build a project, maybe not of this amplitude of change But with a change that is important to the company, it can look at these two things It has a strategy that it should represent formally, and how it is delivering it at the end, evaluate if it is real or not Because it certainly was real, otherwise it wouldn't be there Maybe it doesn't deliver anymore in the same quality, or the market has changed, it delivers in the same quality, but the market wants something else So I think this evaluation it can do The other thing is to look at its team, invest in people with a goal Because it's no use bringing Neymar to my team if my team doesn't have a goal that makes sense And that I use Neymar's skills for my team I'll pay for it, and I won't have the return I'll leave it, because in a company that is choosing its investments When it brings a mega executive or mega executives of capacity I need to have a plan for this use of this capacity So I think it's evaluating in which part this company is so that it makes the right investments So I think this is an important point But I think there is an alternative path to this Because, at least I'll talk thinking like Maitreya thinks We have this product that we are talking about Which is a product basically for you to do beard, hair and moustache in the whole company, along with the executives It's like having the company imagining doing an IPO So you prepare everything, you put everything in place Not necessarily the owner may not want to do the IPO, or it is already open capital But the logic is, I need a long-term project I'm not going to talk about the IPO, because when you're going to do the IPO You need a future proposal that is laced in your present So you need to have something now, concrete, strategic, working, result, action, improvement But I need to have something in the future that delivers something even better Because someone will come in to invest in my company, to wait for this future that I'm delivering So the logic of the IPO is very useful for the process Regardless of the operational difficulties, you have to make a capital investment Now, sometimes a smaller company is not in that moment to do a project of this size Or is not with the resources, because it may be that time too It can maybe, and we believe in it, do a job that we do Which is a job of a quick look at the company And then we specify where are the biggest generations of value for it in the next 24 months And then, instead of doing a job of this size, without losing the systemic vision You have to focus on some pieces And then it's no use to be a business like this, only expenses, only logistics, there is no way But at least you connect things and give a deep dive in some more important pieces That, in a way, they are already feeling that they need And then you have a support that will be, in quotes, cheaper, but it will be focused And that can lead you to another project later Because the result that this project generates can finance the next job So I think there are two paths There is no need to have a consultancy in a company I think it is useful, otherwise we would not have this business that we have But I don't think we have to start from this principle I think you can try to do it alone, it has a possible training, it has a strategy, it has people I think it's about trying to see how much it works And then you can put a consultancy, even if it is in the model, I will not call it simplified, but more focused That is not exactly, I will focus only on this business, or only on that But focus on some pieces that the consultancy itself has to help you look And give you speed, and give you assertiveness So I think there are these two paths you can do And then, depending on availability, time and everything else, and focus And I think this is what we most believe can be done And in addition to shortening the path, I see that the consultancy, and I had the experience For several years of hiring consultancy for the industry And after a few years I became a consultant So it's not just shortening the path, but maximizing the result with less cost Do more with less So if you make less mistakes, when you have a look, even looking from the outside It brings a different perspective from the usual, within the executive body, or the board, anyway So I consider it extremely valid, I encourage companies to have consultancy And look for the best, as an example of Maitreya Very well, we have now arrived at PingaFogo There are three quick questions that I ask all the guests, the same First of them, what are the virtues of a successful entrepreneur?

So Maurício, I think here, first thing, entrepreneur, I told you a little, there is a question of the hero I think the entrepreneur has resilience, he has the ability that is out of the ordinary So much so that it is a cream, you have very few entrepreneurs We would like to have 100 times more humble entrepreneurs on the planet than we have today What for us, in my opinion, would be the following The main ability that the entrepreneur has, besides his business itself He has something, as if he had a chip inside him that says If everything goes wrong, I'll start all over again And this, any great entrepreneur I've met in my life It's like he's, I don't know, practicing detachment He's not afraid of the risk he's taking Because if that goes wrong, it's because he still has something to improve That he does it again and starts again better And he gets to where he has to get This is a belief that is essential, in my view, for the entrepreneur A successful entrepreneur has this I met billionaires who continue with this belief And I met small guys who are starting to have this belief It's the same chip, it rebuilds So with that he inspires, with that he manages to have new ideas With that he invests, whether in technology, consulting, machines Without the fear, without the handbrake pulled, which is what makes 99% of the population Because this is not a characteristic that comes in everyone The chip does not come in everyone I think you know that What differentiates dreamers from doers?

So come on, I think that first, if you don't dream, doing loses a little sense It's a duo, they have to walk together Because if I'm a doer of something I don't dream of, I'm going to be a mediocre initiative So, effectively, one thing without the other, it won't work And the pure dreamer, he ends up being an inspirer, but he doesn't necessarily manage to be a finisher in the processes So I think the difference is to create a pragmatic optimism, which would be the junction of the two So the dreamer has a monstrous ability to see things that people are not seeing He sees the future, he feels things that others are not feeling He imagines things that were not even thought of and then he starts to have ideas And an idea on top of another, a dream on top of another, so this has a gigantic value And the doer has the ability to make it come true But, in theory, one without the other, the value is very reduced Because one without the other is like 10% of the grade, and not 100% So, one has discipline, one has the ability to go from the dream to the operational, and usually to the financial And the other has the ability to say, regardless of what is happening today, the future is different, the path is different I can see, I can draw When I talked to dreamer entrepreneurs, I used to say, let's bring a painter here And you describe your company in three years and he will paint a picture He will paint how his client feels, how his product is, his service, how the company works inside He has this ability, it's like you play with him, he turns the cube and he can visually describe how it will be And the doer can pragmatize this in a very clear way Say, if this is this, then it means that today, in my sale, I need to put this If this is this, in my service, I have to change this He can go for a pragmatism, sometimes even irritating He says, but you're not dreaming, you're just doing it But I'm doing it based on a dream, I think that's the logic And the last one, what is design?

What is design?

This one is more complex, right, Mauricio?

Let's go I even put myself in the chair here, let's go I think design, when we look at it, it's a very, very broad question When we talk about design, deep down, if we stop to think, in my understanding It's like we're structuring something There are several types of design, but it's always to find a solution, an improvement A process, with a better delivery That is, I redesign something so that I deliver a better solution And that this solution has the least possible friction Obviously, it may be that the proposal is to have friction But I'll put this aside to facilitate our conversation But he doesn't want to shock, he just wants to find a solution That is better, easier, more intuitive That it works better, that it covers more solutions in the process So it can be for the product, it can be for a service, it can be for an image It can be for whatever, but it has the ability to revise, at the end of the story, the solution I'll give you an example, we have a product called organizational redesign So, whether we like it or not, we look at the structure, based on everything we've talked about We look at the structure that the company has The structure will be what the company needs to deliver that change, that strategy So you change the structure, you redesign it so that there is speed So that you have assertiveness, so that you have speed So that you can do this process So, design, in my understanding, is everything that we develop And obviously, the first thing that comes to mind is a visual design But that's not it, it's a much bigger thing It's a much broader thing, where we can propose a solution With various aspects, for a goal, for a path, for a desire That is already being demanded in some way there And then you take the design of a car, it will do the least friction possible With the greatest beauty possible, with the best delivery of solution To that type of client that is there I think we can go on niching each type of design But at the end of the story, doing strategy is a design Yes, a design of a future scenario Excellent, we now enter one of the most researched sessions on the Podo Brand website Which is the reading indication And I would like to ask you which books you could tell us That have impacted you on the trajectory And that can help us to reach our best version I knew we were going to talk about this, because it's already a tradition on the Podo Brand So I separated some books here to be able to talk And I will try to create a logic of order for us to be able to do It's not the most important at least There is a book that I like a lot called Selling the Invisible Which is by Harry Beckwith Let me see if I can show this I think there is a newer cover, but this is a version just for you to see It's even yellow, I'm going to open it, it's even yellow But why do I like this book so much?

What is Selling the Invisible?

Because it's talking a lot about services So it's about how you sell, how you understand, how you operate services And it's practically, it's one third of the book forward Basically it's two pages, one way It builds several pieces, several perspectives for you to look at So I think it's really cool And mainly because it talks a lot about what we were discussing Which is that the service is no longer separated from the product Companies have been serving the product for a long time It's the way of looking that wasn't this look It's not an innovation, it's just how it was Whether you like it or not, if you have a company that has a concrete product You still have its delivery, you still have its arrangement in the store You still have the interaction on the website, on the applications You became a service with the product, it's very difficult not to have it So he speaks very well of this, I think it's quite interesting For those who want to delve into this path And then, trying to create a sequence I have another book that I like a lot This book is already for those who are in health But I think it's impressively impactful Which is Repensando a Saúde, by Michael Porter This book, it has here Maybe for me, I worked a lot with health And it was very impactful for me And it's very modern, even an old book Because it shows why health is so complicated Because basically there is a conflict of interest between all players So health is the last thing that people are really looking at They are looking at their costs, they are looking at access, they are looking at innovation But health itself, you don't pay for health, you pay for the disease You pay to be treated for the disease And at the end of the story, no one is really looking at the core of the issue And he even talks about the difficulties of doing preventive medicine How misaligned this is to the interests of the chain So honestly, for those who are not in health, maybe it's not so ...

But you end up dealing with it every day Because it's the problem we live, it's the crisis we're seeing in health plans Why?

Because if the system is to reduce access It is to discuss coverage, it is to see a shortage It is to discuss cost-unit treatment, it is to make a package And he shows all this, for those who like this theme, I am passionate about health And he shows how this is a path In this same line, I brought another book, trying to go back to the sense of service Which is, if Disney managed your hospital, by Fred Lee Let me put it up a little bit So, why did I bring this?

Really, I'm not even so worried about the hospital But I think it gives ...

I think most people know Disney but Disney's logic, Disney's mindset What transformed Disney into Disney is a process far beyond fun It is a process of humanizing the process through joy He talks a lot about how to deliver value How are you in the hospital?

What kind of value are you delivering?

How do you humanize the treatment?

How do you turn this into something much more ...

If it is possible to say this word, more pleasurable Since that is being inevitable So it's very interesting, but forget the hospital You can translate the same ... the hospital shocks more Which is very difficult to talk about what I'm talking about in the hospital Now imagine talking about it in a sports article store Or imagine talking about it in a mall Or talk about it in whatever your service or product is With the interpretation of Disney's mindset It amplifies the capacity And again, it connects service, service, people The value proposition and the concrete product In my opinion, this path is very interesting And finally, two other books I brought here One is this one, which is Awakening a New Consciousness By Edgar Tolle This book is a book ...

For me it was very important in my life in the sense of looking, of understanding Even for you to pragmatize some things But understand where it comes from So what is the true ego?

I always had in mind that the ego was vanity And in fact the ego is much broader than that Without having to go so much into the paths of psychology But go so much into my understanding What I feel and where the ego operates Because basically it is our emotional resistance If I want to discuss emotional intelligence I need to know myself Peter Sange talks a lot about this, about knowing yourself So for me to know myself, I need to understand What I generate of difficulty How I create obstacles for myself in this process And I need to understand a little how the ego operates In a simple way, it is not so complex It really simplifies the process a lot But it gives you an ability to understand And self-knowledge That enables you to take the next steps of self-knowledge So I think this is a very interesting book And finally, there is one that I really like Which is from Osho Which is Fame, Fortune and Ambition That is, what is the true meaning of success And I think we talked a lot here About companies, results We can list, you have several in your career I also have, Maitreya has But really, where do we want to get?

What really is this?

Where are we looking for this path?

At least in my interpretation We didn't come here to get rich We came here for an evolution And effectively, I think the book Shows exactly where are The faulty acts of non-evolution And the misunderstanding Of what is success So, it is very interesting It mainly has two texts My two texts are quite simple The last text is a little deeper But only the first two texts Give a useful path for reflection And for everyone to create their own description Of what is really their success Or what does it mean Where do you want to go?

So, I think these, humbly Are the five books I chose And it wasn't easy There is a small library up there And inside there is a lot Excellent your list of recommendations This always creates a problem for me Because I end up having more of these books In my reading queue And I am an enthusiast of knowledge So, I have more books Than my ability to read them Even so, I keep acquiring And it is one of the great pleasures of life And certainly from this list I will enter my library To facilitate the access Of everyone who follows us We have made available The links of these books Directly in the description In addition, I invite you all To explore the book section On the website podbrand.design There we gather a curatorship With more than 300 books Recommended by our guests Do not forget to check And the link is also Down there in the description Well, Leo, we are going to the end And I still bring the question From Ana Forte, she is Portuguese Mentor And she divides herself Between Portugal and Iceland And she formulated this question Without having any idea That you would be our next guest So, her question is What is your purpose in life now?

This question is very simple Very easy, very calm to answer Thank you, Ana Forte It was very, very calm So, let's go Here is a very difficult answer Regardless of our conversation today I think that at least my feeling Is that everyone comes to this planet Looking to discover their purpose in life That's why she says purpose now It already helps, because if not You will try to find an eternal purpose In a slightly more complex situation So, I'm going to talk a little About what I've discovered so far For me, at least My goal is to evolve Sincerely, my purpose Evolution, for me And there is a kind of selfish side To evolve for you But for me, I think the only way to evolve Is when you do this Interacting with other people And consequently The chance for everyone to evolve together This would be the main path But how?

So, let's try to make this process clearer In my understanding In these studies I did And there are books here that talk a little About this path too So, you need to have a concrete goal I can't want to evolve To basically want to enlighten myself This process will be very abstract And the situation will be very fallible So, it makes more sense For me, that we create a concrete goal Material, right?

Look, I'm going to develop companies I'm going to help I'm going to be the best ally Of founders, shareholders Advisors, CEOs For companies to evolve This evolution It's a human evolution It's not a business evolution We transform this business evolution Because it's a model we used to look at But deep down, we discussed a lot What we talked about today How much we talked about people, behavior So, it's a platform That forces me to develop So, it doesn't let me Be happy with what I have so far Because the challenges are not small You know this There's no cake recipe There's nothing You can use your experience To create new solutions But it's always a different solution And you have to do this Through people, with people This develops me It also develops people They face fears Things that if we could, we would avoid And I think it makes the mission That we came here easier To transform this into something More concrete That has stress That has difficulty But that has a lot of feeling Of belonging Of purpose Of a path And that it needs financial sustainability Not necessarily the financial objective For me But it's obvious If we're here, we have to have financial sustainability The work has value The businessman needs to sustain A huge chain of people Of families Connecting to development To be meritocratic For the effort To have a community So for me I think this is something Within the purpose And in a certain way Leave a legacy I think this leaves a different legacy Today we live a world Of truths With very little empathy Very little capacity for conversation And this type of process If we can conduct it In a way of more love Of more connection It will also leave a legacy For a better world And that will give opportunities For people who may not have been The same as us Or more or less In this case of explanation That they can access A path of development Of sustainability for them So for me It's very difficult to answer Because wherever you look It has another perspective But I think it's the junction of these perspectives Of my self-development A work where it's fair With people who are looking For improvement for themselves For their own families For conditions of evolution Companies that have merit And have a history That makes a lot of sense To be respected and developed A founder or founders That did exactly what we were discussing A capacity of When it goes wrong Find a solution and turn around And went through failures and disappointments And didn't let themselves be hurt To the point of giving up So there's a lot involved And if all goes well The world gets a chance To look at the material world And maybe more concrete With a little more humanity Love and that needs results Without results it doesn't work Because it's the result that makes me improve It's the path of the future That will force me to be better In the company, me as a professional And the professionals who are there So I think that's a little bit of it And that my daughter in the future Look at it and get inspired To do the same thing I think that's it Excellent!

Anna Forte's question is complex I took 50 years to have clarity of my purpose in life And if you could ask a single question To our next guest What would it be?

I'll try to be easier Than Anna Forte, okay?

Thank you very much I think that What I always on the way we've been talking here What would be What were your biggest mistakes Or disappointments To this day And how these mistakes or disappointments Improved you Or made you evolve Or improve in your life I think that's it What changed?

Very well, it will be done To our next guest Well, Leo, it was a privilege To have you with us today Sharing your rich experience And perceptions About the connection Between the strategic And the operational Going through the human characteristic Your insights certainly Left an inspiring mark In our learning journey Thank you very much For your brilliant contribution And I'm very happy To have you here today At the Board of Brands Thank you, I thank you Mauricio, a super clear Super direct introduction It was a pleasure to be here It was a great conversation And a big hug to everyone Very well, it's an honor It's a great pleasure And see you soon Dreamers and doers We hope that this episode Has enlightened the vital importance Of this strategic and operational Connection in business leadership And business management This theme is a fundamental pillar For those who seek Not only to dream, but to realize Significant transformations Of their business In their organizations I invite everyone to visit The website podbrands.design To explore this and other episodes And discover what is behind The success of people, brands And strategic design Don't forget to subscribe To our channel And share this episode Your participation is essential For this story To impact more people And can reach And inspire even more Dreamers and doers We found here at Podbrand, The Design Podcast.